Because of the role of religion in the history of ideas and values, I 'd
bet most topics have some religious connection.  While I don't like
proselytizing, I think having religious ideas that have been cloaked as
secular ideas over time are much more troublesome, and are sometimes
offensive.   

 

A religious or quasi-religious idea like the Great Chain of Being that
gives "man dominion over nature" is much more offensive to me as a
person who wants to live in harmony with nature than any religious
greeting or prayer would ever be, especially when it spawns TV programs
like "Flip this House", and being OK with drilling for oil off-shore.  

 

Another troubling link is the near inextricability between Calvinism and
our society where almost always the first question one is asked is "what
do you do?", and your paycheck is too often a proxy for your goodliness,
and your children are talked about as deductions.

 

I've lived in two theocracies (Thailand and Saudi Arabia) and it is
almost easier to deal with the explicit connection between religion and
everything in those countries than the disingenuous separation of church
and state we pretend to have.  We can thank St. Thomas and others for
that idea.

 

It's been my experience that when I talk about an idea that comes from
an animist, Buddhist, or other non-Christian tradition, it is quite
frequent that someone brings up separation of church and state as a way
to stifle discussion.  

 

The Way is not the way,  the Taoists say...

 

Michael Tate

 

From: diversity-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:diversity-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Muro, Andres
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:50 AM
To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List; The Diversity and
Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [Diversity 150] Re: religion on this discussion list

 

First we must understand that things are not black and white even though
laws in some ways give that illusion. We are a diverse society and
people carry baggage of emotions, feelings, desires, culture,
traditions, etc. Inclusive and diverse practices that promote respect
should encourage people to learn from others while not imposing their
values on others. Rather, there should be opportunity for exchange,
interaction and learning. 

 

That is the theory, and the practice becomes more difficult because we
begin to cross peoples comfort zones. The more we learn about others,
the more we become tolerant about other people's practices and we begin
to understand the difference between sharing and imposing. 

 

To me, wishing someone a blessed time is sharing. On the other hand
demanding that we all pray together daily is more of an imposition. 

 

Having said that, the question was how do we promote diversity without
imposing our values. I think that a way is to use holidays to do so. A
teacher can state at the beginning of the class that she would like to
learn about student's holidays and invite them to bring things to the
class to inform others on given days. This way all students are informed
that this will happen and they will feel that they'll have an
opportunity to share their traditions. Of course, some of the students
holidays may not be during class. The teacher may choose to give those
students an opportunity to share their practices on other days. Teachers
may choose to have international weeks, cooking days, cultural events
and so on and so forth. 

 

Out of these practices teachers can construct all kinds of language
learning activities. 

 

Permanently displaying crosses, virgin marys, bibles, praying daily, etc
are impositions. Having periods of time to learn about other people's
cultures is promoting diversity to me. Accepting the well wishes of
others is polite, to say the least, and also good Karma (whatever that
means).

 

Andres

 

Please visit my art website at:

http://www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html

 

________________________________

From: diversity-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Karen Wyman
Sent: Thu 9/4/2008 9:40 AM
To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [Diversity 147] Re: religion on this discussion list

Hi, Julie and list members,

Just a question this time, in the kind of environment you are
describing, what steps would you take to ensure that the learning
environment is safe, welcoming, comfortable, and empowering for a
student who is opposed to organized religions or specific religions or
has been harmed through their involvement in religion?

Karen

Karen Wyman
Community Outreach Trainer
New Mexico Coalition Against Domestic Violence  (NMCADV)
201 Coal Avenue SW
Albuquerque, NM 87102
phone 505.246.9240
fax 505.246.9434
www.nmcadv.org
karenw at nmcadv.org

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



-----Original Message-----
From: diversity-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:diversity-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Julie McKinney
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:23 AM
To: diversity at nifl.gov
Subject: [Diversity 145] Re: religion on this discussion list

I think a discussion like this is a perfect use for the Diversity list!

What strikes me is that one of the most important things about an adult
learning environment is creating a safe, welcoming, comfortable,
empowering place. This means that each student must feel comfortable
sharing their feelings, ideas and views without fear of any kind of
rejection. How many times have we seen that adults learn better in this
kind of setting? Especially when they are learning to communicate in new
ways, they must be able to feel free to express their own ideas.

Personal and passionate beliefs like the expression of religious  ideas
(and expressing is not the same as prosyletizing) is a powerful
springboard to interactive and meaningful discussion. This, in turn,
helps to improve language, literacy and communication better than
discussing trivial issues. So, as Daphne suggested, this is a good
opportunity to explore the commonalities that arise from what the
Muslims "ponder" during this holiday (such as "injustices, inequality,
wrongs visited upon the poor and vulnerable...etc.)

This shows how things can be interpreted so differently depending one
one's attitude. What seems at first to be a point of stark difference
can often be seen as common ground instead.

Julie

Julie McKinney
Health Literacy List Moderator
World Education
jmckinney at worlded.org

>>> "Daphne Greenberg" <alcdgg at langate.gsu.edu> 09/03/08 9:31 PM >>>

One of the examples of suitable topics for this discussion list, from
the posted description on the NIFL Web page
(http://nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/diversity/about_diversity.html), is
"religious differences and adult literacy classrooms". So Ochieng's
original post (especially with the introductory sentence) seems on topic
to me. I see two possible examples of utilizing the rich information
provided by Ochieng. One example would be directed at programs who
wanted to focus this month on understanding the Muslim faith. To do so
would be similar to programs deciding to focus on another month on the
Jewish faith (during their high holiday season), the Christian faith
(during Christmas), women (during Women's month) or African Americans
(during African American month). This would be especially appropriate
for ESL programs that want to introduce their students to the different
peoples that make up our country. As another example, it seems to me
that her post lists a few of the types of issues that could be
discussed, read about, written about in an ABE class: "injustices,
inequality, wrongs
 visited upon the poor and vulnerable, unity of the ummah, corruption,
leadership, marginalization, environment, prejudices and stereotypes,
etc. " Both of these examples seem to me to be reasonable and worthwhile
for the Diversity and Literacy discussion list.

Perhaps some people may take issue to the following phrases and
sentences:

"blessed opportunity" , "mercy and forgiveness from Allah" and
especially "May Allah (SWT) grant all of us us the ibadah(devotion) of
the night of Qadr(blessed night) and make us the best ummah."  Perhaps
for some, these cross the line between description into endorsement  of
a particular religious faith. I don't know if this violates any
government rules, and I do not think we have anything in the NIFL
policies that addresses this, so I believe that this is new territory.

So, Kearney, thanks for your post and raising an interesting question
for all of us to ponder. I would like all list subscribers to think
about Ochieng's post and Kearney's response. What do you as literacy
professionals interested in diversity -- think would be good guidelines
for the discussion lists, and also for the classroom, of what is and is
not appropriate to say about religion or faith. I think it's a
fascinating topic. Perhaps there are articles written about religion,
faith and the public school classroom. I don't know.

I am curious, would people have posted Ochieng's post? What if someone
posted the below message-would your answer be the same or different:

Many of you have Christian students who are celebrating the blessed
holiday on December 25th. I would like to wish them Merry Christmas. It
is a day of deep reflection in celebration of  the birth of Jesus
Christ.

It is a blessed opportunity to reflect upon and grapple with the issues
that afflict the souls of not only the Christian Community but the
greater creation of God.

It is also the time to ponder and generate solutions to such issues as
injustices, inequality, wrongs visited upon the poor and vulnerable,
unity of the Christian Community, corruption, leadership,
marginalization, environment, prejudices and stereotypes, etc.

Christmas is an important holiday of piety, family and community
sharing, selflessness and a time to seek God's mercy.

May God grant all of us the ability to appreciate this holy day  and
make us the best people possible.

Would you have posted a message like this? Why or why not?

Daphne




>>> Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com> 09/03/08 4:50 PM >>>

I am surprised that no one has yet commented on the propriety of using a
government listserve to circulate religious doctrine.

Has The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List now become a vehicle for
promoting religious holidays and disseminating prayers?


 Regards,

Kearney Lykins




----- Original Message ----
From: Ochieng kh <ochykheyr at yahoo.com>
To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List <diversity at nifl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2008 10:02:45 AM
Subject: [Diversity 129] Ramadhan Kareem


Dear All,
Many of you have Muslim students who are celebrating the blessed month
of Ramadhan. I would like to wish them Ramadhan kareem. It is a month of
deep reflection and self-restraint while praying for spiritual purity,
good tidings and endless bounties.
 
It is a blessed opportunity to reflect upon and grapple with the issues
that afflict the souls of not only the Muslim ummah but the greater
creation of Allah (SWT).
 
It is also the time to ponder and generate solutions to such issues as
injustices, inequality, wrongs visited upon the poor and vulnerable,
unity of the ummah, corruption, leadership, marginalization,
environment, prejudices and stereotypes, etc. 
 
Ramadhan is an important month of Patience, sharing and selflessness and
a time to seek the mercy and forgiveness from Allah (SWT)
 
May Allah (SWT) grant all of us us the ibadah(devotion) of the night of
Qadr(blessed night) and make us the best ummah.
RAMADHAN KAREEM
Ochieng M.Khairallah


     
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Diversity and Literacy mailing list
Diversity at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/diversity

----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Diversity and Literacy mailing list
Diversity at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/diversity
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Diversity and Literacy mailing list
Diversity at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/diversity

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/diversity/attachments/20080904/e87217bc/attachment.html