Hello, everyone, 
While I think there are some wonderful and creative ideas in what Michael writes, I have to admit that I groaned at the idea of introducing militaristic structures such as "platoons" and incorporating competitive incentives and public displays of achievement. Here's why I take issue with these methods: 

The military is often heavily courting young people, especially men, who are pursuing adult education. The level of honesty and transparency among recruiters varies substantially, and, in my experience, recruits were often promised things that never came to pass, even when the recruits complied with everything the recruiters asked of them. When I then consider the number of soldiers being injured or killed in the military, using military structure as a motivational tool seems to send a problematic message, rather than encouraging potential recruits to think critically about what the military claims to offer. If an instructor wanted to divide a class in to groups such as Michael describes, there are other non-military terms that could be used. I also worry that while this has the potential to engage some males, it may also alienate other males or some women in the class. 

Regarding competition, many of the adult education students I worked with shied away at the very thought of any kind of competitive tracking of their achievements. Many of them had failed, and failed, and they did not want to risk failing again. And, inevitably, if there is a competitive system, someone has to lose. While this may be a powerful incentive for some, particularly those who are likely to win, it has the potential to alienate others. The same goes for the public displays of achievement - everyone notices not only who is listed on the success board but also who is NOT listed. Not that we shouldn't recognize success, but I think we need to be careful and thoughtful about how we do this. 

One of the things that has come to mind for me throughout this discussion is that perhaps males' dissatisfaction with classes is more evident - perhaps they are more likely to walk out, drop out, speak up, or otherwise let us know it's not working. Maybe women are more likely to take what they can get even if they aren't getting much or would prefer it to work differently. I don't think that women's continued presence in class necessarily says anything about her satisfaction with the class, just that she keeps showing up. 

I also think it's risky business to assume/presume that men want sports and military style classes, while women want process and relationship oriented classes. This is not always the case. Some men, when given the chance, have delighted in the opportunity to discuss poetry and to work collaboratively; and, conversely, some women have thrilled at the chance to compete against others and demonstrate their academic mastery. We cannot reduce our students - or our teachers - to stereotypes. We need to incorporate a wide range of teaching strategies because people all learn differently, not because of their sex. Of course, there are times when single-sex classes might be appropriate, such as when classes are being offered as part of domestic violence service provision at a shelter or in the case someone described of the Muslim women working together. 

Respectfully, 
Karen  



Karen Wyman
Community Outreach Trainer
New Mexico Coalition Against Domestic Violence  (NMCADV)
201 Coal Avenue SW
Albuquerque, NM 87102
phone 505.246.9240
fax 505.246.9434
www.nmcadv.org
karenw at nmcadv.org

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-----Original Message-----
From: diversity-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:diversity-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michael Tate
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 5:11 PM
To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [Diversity 74] Re: gender separation?

Daphne and colleagues:  

I'm conflicted on separate classes, too, because of Thurgood Marshall's
"separate is inherently  unequal" principle. Consider the sorry state of
women's athletics even with Title IX. Since the problem of males
dropping out will be at crisis level in the near future, I think we've
got to try different approaches even with the risks.

I understand there is some research to support separate math and science
classes for girls, and separate writing classes for boys, but I haven't
seen it. 

I think we could add features that males would respond to, to a school
or a class.  Here's how the class might look: 

Let's say the school targeted young African-American males who were
gang-involved, and the school used many of ideas I mentioned in my last
posting.  The uniform (tee shirt and khaki pants) keeps the gang colors
issue out of the school.  Add a Wall of Fame that tracks everyone's
successes.  Organize most of their work in "platoons" and select platoon
leaders on the basis of seniority, behavior and performance at the
school.  Have the platoon leaders wear a scarf.  Have each platoon vie
for privileges to be awarded for working together to get each of its
members to a set point. Platoon leaders will get pins to wear on their
scarves (like merit badges) when they could teach a lesson to the
platoon. 

I'm thinking that it might not be gender, but a value
orientation/constellation or another affiliation that is the right
criteria for special separate classes.  I grew up in a military family,
but I was  very young  when I realized that the regimented,
hierarchical, indoctrination of the military wasn't for me. Women are
joining the military, so it can work at least for some of them.

If we used Gardner's 9 Intelligences, there might be a school/class
oriented for folks who have spatial intelligences or one for those who
are musical, or one for the naturalists.  

I don't know how the genders are distributed among Gardner's 9
intelligences, but if males were concentrated in a couple of them, the
school could focus on those intelligences, and that might provide what
the boys need persist. Then the principle of separation is not gender,
but  having a kind of intelligence.  

 Michael Tate
-----Original Message-----
From: diversity-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:diversity-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Daphne Greenberg
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 2:34 PM
To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [Diversity 69] Re: gender separation?

that is a good question-I don't know. But I am wondering if this is even
something we as a field would want to suggest and push? It seems to me
that some posters were advocating specific types of approaches for
males. If that is the case, it seems to me that this points to separate
classes for  women and men. I am just wondering if people think separate
classes would be a good idea. If yes, what would the classes for women
look like? And what would happen to people who don't fit the stereotypes
of male and female?
Daphne


>>> "Katherine Gotthardt" <katherine.gotthardt at gmail.com> 7/13/2008 9:16

PM >>>
Daphne, even if students opted for a single gender class, would the
typical
school budget be able to handle it?

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Daphne Greenberg
<alcdgg at langate.gsu.edu>
wrote:


> Thanks to everyone for contributing to an interesting discussion on

males

> and education. Based on the posts that I have read, I am wondering if

some

> people would propose having separate classes for males and separate

ones for

> females. There were some posters who had very specific ideas about

what

> changes would need to be made in order to attract males to attend and

stay

> in adult literacy classes. Are there specific aspects that people

think

> would help attract females to attend and stay in adult literacy

classes? If

> yes, are people proposing separate classes? And if yes, what about

people

> who don't fit stereotypical notions of what males or females want?

> Daphne

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-- 
Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
www.LuxuriousChoices.net

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